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	<title>Comments on: A Re:ply to the toronto.ca &#8220;re:Brand&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Branding for humans</description>
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		<title>By: Foam Insulations</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-65161</link>
		<dc:creator>Foam Insulations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-65161</guid>
		<description>&quot;~. I am very thankful to this topic because it really gives great information `&#039;*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;~. I am very thankful to this topic because it really gives great information `&#8217;*</p>
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		<title>By: Shower Pump</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-56184</link>
		<dc:creator>Shower Pump</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 05:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-56184</guid>
		<description>Employee relations should be given more importance in an office environment as well as on any other business establishment -;~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Employee relations should be given more importance in an office environment as well as on any other business establishment -;~</p>
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		<title>By: Kai Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-36206</link>
		<dc:creator>Kai Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 00:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-36206</guid>
		<description>employee relations is very very important in the business setting.,::</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>employee relations is very very important in the business setting.,::</p>
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		<title>By: Keith McDonald</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-29613</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-29613</guid>
		<description>Hi, Keith back again in case anyone comes back or finds this page anew.  We have a blogspace opened up taking about toronto.ca: &lt;a href=&quot;http://webrebrand.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;webrebrand.blogspot.com&lt;/a&gt;.  Be glad to continue discussion there or here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Keith back again in case anyone comes back or finds this page anew.  We have a blogspace opened up taking about toronto.ca: <a href="http://webrebrand.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">webrebrand.blogspot.com</a>.  Be glad to continue discussion there or here.</p>
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		<title>By: David Olinger</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>David Olinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-70</guid>
		<description>To be successful, a brand must be embraced by the people it represents. That is why our process is all about public engagement. A brand is not to be confused with logos and slogans. That is how some clearly think when imagining a branding process. These elements are the outward representation of a brand.

We want the residents to tell us what is important to them; what resonates with them when they think of their city and how it is portrayed. 

In our case, we talk about our city being a growing, vibrant, dynamic City as administration. The residents and community stakeholders will hopefully get excited about this process and their community and partipate fully in the process.

This stage of our branding is about the public engagement. A separate implementation process will follow.

David Olinger, Manager of Marketing and Communications</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be successful, a brand must be embraced by the people it represents. That is why our process is all about public engagement. A brand is not to be confused with logos and slogans. That is how some clearly think when imagining a branding process. These elements are the outward representation of a brand.</p>
<p>We want the residents to tell us what is important to them; what resonates with them when they think of their city and how it is portrayed. </p>
<p>In our case, we talk about our city being a growing, vibrant, dynamic City as administration. The residents and community stakeholders will hopefully get excited about this process and their community and partipate fully in the process.</p>
<p>This stage of our branding is about the public engagement. A separate implementation process will follow.</p>
<p>David Olinger, Manager of Marketing and Communications</p>
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		<title>By: Keith McDonald</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 22:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Excellent comments all around and much appreciated honesty and directness. 

To address @Lauren Hughes first ... no, we didn&#039;t mean others would edit and update our content specifically. But, that being said, we are not thinking of forever excluding people entering content such as profile information or events information &amp; review or blog content. And we wouldn&#039;t reject, out of hand, community contributions to pages. These are all things we are exploring.

The opening of data is aimed at developers who may be able to use it in quite a dynamic and creative way. Mashups are so effective in so many ways, it could be that developers would build all kinds of wonderful and useful applications beginning with our data. The side bar issue with that is whether the core data becomes something that generates profits for others and nothing comes back to City residents. A creative commons vs a profit commons and how that might unfold. Opportunities for partnerships abound here too.

It&#039;s clear none of us want to see a toronto.ca that is a one dimensional/one way presentation of services that disconnects from the very users we hope to reach. And users certainly do include tourists as well as residents. It&#039;s great we are hearing from both on this page.

&lt;b&gt;Taking advantage of a good position&lt;/b&gt;
I think Lauren hits a correct philosophical note when she says: &quot;don&#039;t lead them astray&quot;.  There is no doubt toronto.ca is a powerful property and we can either maximize it or float along on the fact the site has good positioning.  

Well, we don&#039;t want to coast along! We want to maximize satisfaction with the site and make it a worthy and viable resource reflecting Toronto.  In that sense there is no escaping we are connected with the &quot;big picture&quot; Toronto. 

I posted this on our TOwebrebrand Twitter account during the Stanley Cup finals and it seems just as relevant here:
 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Occurs to me toronto.ca is to Toronto as Sydney Crosby is to Pittsburgh. Our web has to score to win! That may be &quot;corny&quot; but true.#playoffs&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We&#039;ve had some recent blog coverage on a few other blogs around Toronto. Not much discussion ensued from those posts.  I&#039;m not sure what is different here but, in truth, we need more of this kind of exchange not less. So, I encourage you and and any new readers to keep going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent comments all around and much appreciated honesty and directness. </p>
<p>To address @Lauren Hughes first &#8230; no, we didn&#8217;t mean others would edit and update our content specifically. But, that being said, we are not thinking of forever excluding people entering content such as profile information or events information &amp; review or blog content. And we wouldn&#8217;t reject, out of hand, community contributions to pages. These are all things we are exploring.</p>
<p>The opening of data is aimed at developers who may be able to use it in quite a dynamic and creative way. Mashups are so effective in so many ways, it could be that developers would build all kinds of wonderful and useful applications beginning with our data. The side bar issue with that is whether the core data becomes something that generates profits for others and nothing comes back to City residents. A creative commons vs a profit commons and how that might unfold. Opportunities for partnerships abound here too.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s clear none of us want to see a toronto.ca that is a one dimensional/one way presentation of services that disconnects from the very users we hope to reach. And users certainly do include tourists as well as residents. It&#8217;s great we are hearing from both on this page.</p>
<p><b>Taking advantage of a good position</b><br />
I think Lauren hits a correct philosophical note when she says: &#8220;don&#8217;t lead them astray&#8221;.  There is no doubt toronto.ca is a powerful property and we can either maximize it or float along on the fact the site has good positioning.  </p>
<p>Well, we don&#8217;t want to coast along! We want to maximize satisfaction with the site and make it a worthy and viable resource reflecting Toronto.  In that sense there is no escaping we are connected with the &#8220;big picture&#8221; Toronto. </p>
<p>I posted this on our TOwebrebrand Twitter account during the Stanley Cup finals and it seems just as relevant here:</p>
<blockquote><p>Occurs to me toronto.ca is to Toronto as Sydney Crosby is to Pittsburgh. Our web has to score to win! That may be &#8220;corny&#8221; but true.#playoffs</p></blockquote>
<p>We&#8217;ve had some recent blog coverage on a few other blogs around Toronto. Not much discussion ensued from those posts.  I&#8217;m not sure what is different here but, in truth, we need more of this kind of exchange not less. So, I encourage you and and any new readers to keep going.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren Hughes</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren Hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-67</guid>
		<description>Keith, by this question:

Will opening up our data help the community pull what we have and offer up more than the City could possibly do in the first place?

Do you mean opening you website for others to edit and update? If so - to what extent? I&#039;m curious if something like this is on the table</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, by this question:</p>
<p>Will opening up our data help the community pull what we have and offer up more than the City could possibly do in the first place?</p>
<p>Do you mean opening you website for others to edit and update? If so &#8211; to what extent? I&#8217;m curious if something like this is on the table</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Keith: Dennis noted that toronto.ca appears first in a google search - what a HUGE opportunity this is. To illustrate, here is where &quot;toronto.ca &#124; Official website for the City of Toronto&quot; appears in google searches of &quot;toronto&quot; around the world:

Canada: 1st
US: 1st
China: 2nd (behind U of T)
UK: 1st
France: 2nd (behind wikipedia)
Germany: 2nd (behind wikipedia)
Japan: 2nd (behind Toronto Tourism Japan)
Australia: 1st
Russia: 1st
Brazil: 2nd (behind wikipedia)
South Africa: 1st
India: 1st

AROUND THE WORLD, people who search &quot;toronto&quot; will see the toronto.ca homepage. It didn&#039;t get to #1 (or #2) without any hits! Don&#039;t lead them astray!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith: Dennis noted that toronto.ca appears first in a google search &#8211; what a HUGE opportunity this is. To illustrate, here is where &#8220;toronto.ca | Official website for the City of Toronto&#8221; appears in google searches of &#8220;toronto&#8221; around the world:</p>
<p>Canada: 1st<br />
US: 1st<br />
China: 2nd (behind U of T)<br />
UK: 1st<br />
France: 2nd (behind wikipedia)<br />
Germany: 2nd (behind wikipedia)<br />
Japan: 2nd (behind Toronto Tourism Japan)<br />
Australia: 1st<br />
Russia: 1st<br />
Brazil: 2nd (behind wikipedia)<br />
South Africa: 1st<br />
India: 1st</p>
<p>AROUND THE WORLD, people who search &#8220;toronto&#8221; will see the toronto.ca homepage. It didn&#8217;t get to #1 (or #2) without any hits! Don&#8217;t lead them astray!</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Van Staalduinen</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Van Staalduinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-65</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quibble with a service-first orientation for a government Web site. The opposite danger is painfully evident when you look at the propoganda vehicle that canada.gc.ca has become under the current governmnet. Taxpayers fund these things and they are right to want their services quickly.

But I&#039;d humbly submit that Toronto residents aren&#039;t the only audience for Toronto.ca - and even they would be much better served by a more dynamic Web package. See Vancouver.ca for example.  

As for Brand Toronto, my latest post is about the challenges branding the small city of Grande Prairie AB. But I suspect that Toronto has an even bigger &quot;Muskoseepi dilemma&quot; - a tendency to &quot;shop local&quot; when it comes to perceptions of itself. 

I&#039;ll duck now while my TO friends sharpen their darts...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quibble with a service-first orientation for a government Web site. The opposite danger is painfully evident when you look at the propoganda vehicle that canada.gc.ca has become under the current governmnet. Taxpayers fund these things and they are right to want their services quickly.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;d humbly submit that Toronto residents aren&#8217;t the only audience for Toronto.ca &#8211; and even they would be much better served by a more dynamic Web package. See Vancouver.ca for example.  </p>
<p>As for Brand Toronto, my latest post is about the challenges branding the small city of Grande Prairie AB. But I suspect that Toronto has an even bigger &#8220;Muskoseepi dilemma&#8221; &#8211; a tendency to &#8220;shop local&#8221; when it comes to perceptions of itself. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll duck now while my TO friends sharpen their darts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Van Staalduinen</title>
		<link>http://www.begtodiffer.com/2009/07/a-reply-to-the-toronto-ca-rebrand/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Van Staalduinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.begtodiffer.com/?p=211#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Hey Keith, posted two VERY LONG replies in Comments field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Keith, posted two VERY LONG replies in Comments field.</p>
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